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Rendering 3D AVCHD from Sony TD10

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Mon, 04/16/2012 - 01:27
#1
libro
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Rendering 3D AVCHD from Sony TD10

I have just discovered Kdenlive, after a search for an editing program that will run on linux and recognize the AVCHD files generated by my new 3D camera. It looks like an excellent piece of software!

I have successfully managed to import the files, generate proxies for editing, and do some basic editing on the timeline. The support for proxies is extremely helpful, and has made editing these files feasible on my 6 year old Dell laptop!

However, the input files are 3D AVCHD files, and while they are viewable and editable on my 2D screen, when I render, I want the resultant output to be a 3D AVCHD file that I can play back on a 3D TV. When I attempt to render I am presented with a list of output formats/codecs, and AVCHD is not among them. In particular, what I would like is some kind of "sames as input" type of option so that no transcoding occurs at all, so that hopefully the 3D (left and right streams) are retained during the rendering process.

Is this possible with kdenlive ? If so, how can I make that happen ? Is there a limitation in kdenlive's ability to recognize and process the stereoscopic streams ?

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Mon, 04/16/2012 - 07:22
#2
yellow
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Re: Rendering 3D AVCHD from Sony TD10

ffmpeg is used for video decoding and encoding. I've not used stereoscopic source files but perhaps all you need to do is look at the clip properties for a clip, create a project profile to suit whatever resolution detected by ffmpeg and encode out using h264 in kdenlives render dialogue.

I don't think it matters whether its 3D AVCHD or not. Just resolution, codec and may be the container holding your kdenlive output. May be wrong I've never used video from 3D camera.

As an aside could you make a sample available for download?

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Mon, 04/16/2012 - 12:59
#3
libro
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Re: Rendering 3D AVCHD from Sony TD10

Thanks for the comment. I've just done a render using "Lossless/HQ" and selecting "H.264 lossless fast (video) + AAC (sound)". It appears to play OK on my computer, but have not tested on 3D TV yet, I will test and report back.

I've uploaded a sample, which you can download from here (about 3MB).

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33168897/00020.MTS

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Mon, 04/16/2012 - 23:08
#4
yellow
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Re: Rendering 3D AVCHD from Sony TD10

Thanks for the link, not sure what camera setting your using but the sample in your link appears to be 2D, 1440x1080/50i (HQ,LP) 4:3 PAR rather than HD 1920x1080. 1:1 PAR and 2D rather than 3D.

Specs suggest this:

3D HD:MVC(original format) / 2D HD:MPEG4-AVC/H.264 AVCHD format compatible

3D HD:2x 1920x1080/50i / 2D HD:1920x1080/50p(PS), 25p, 50i(FX,FH), 1440x1080/50i (HQ,LP)

3D:Approx.28Mbps / 2D HD PS:Approx.28Mbps/FX:Approx.24Mbps/FH:Approx.17Mbps/HQ:Approx.9Mbps/LP:Approx.5Mbps / STD

You're going to need different kdenlive Project Profiles depending on what you choose.

Mediainfo suggests BT709 color matrix and Top Field First interlaced order, both bit's info needed for Project Profile.

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Tue, 04/17/2012 - 13:21
#5
libro
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Re: Rendering 3D AVCHD from Sony TD10

Sorry my mistake - that was a 2D shot. I've uploaded a 3D one now as well (although a little larger 30M or so):

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33168897/00079.MTS

For some strange reason, I had to create a profile of 1920x1088p 50fps in kdenlive in order to import the clips.

My "Lossless/HQ" clip was over 7GB for three minutes, so I don't think that's the solution. The "File rendering" options specify an mp4 extension when I select H.264, which doesn't seem right.

It strikes me that if there are no transitions or titles, that I'm just cutting and splicing clips toghether, that it should be possible to do this losslessly in the identical format to the source, with no need for transcoding, or any kind of encoding. Just identify the frame boundaries (or i-frame boundaries if the frame accuracy is not crucial) and stick all the bits together. Is this possible ?

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Tue, 04/17/2012 - 17:58
#6
yellow
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Re: Rendering 3D AVCHD from Sony TD10

re 1088, sounds like kdenlive warned you about profile mismatch? 1088 is the vertical height in the h264 stream, however media players either crop the bottom 8 lines or give the option to crop or not. MLT the underlying framework of kdenlive crops the 8 for us, to 1080.

1088 is described as being mod16, 1088 can be divided equally by 16 where as 1080 can't. It's a throw back to earlier h264 encoders or outdated encoders that have to encode based on multiples of 16.

Canon APS C DSLR's ie. Not 5DmkII / III do the same.

So a 1080P project is actually correct, not 1088.

I haven't looked at the download yet to see if it is 50P or 50i or 25P flagged 50i. But 50P in a 3D mode doesn't look like it's supported by the camera. 2D 50P does?

Lossless h264 is perhaps more suitable as an intermediate file, so a suitable bitrate compariable to your source is probably sufficient.

Yes, it is possible to get a pretty much lossless round trip with care. But kdenlive doesn't offer 'smart' rendering functionality to my limited knowledge.

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