How to see changed video clips + dia shows in a finished project?

Hi,
I created 4 projects. Each with many mp4 files (full HD) and some dia-shows. Then I rendered each project to a mp4 video.
(The reason for the 4 projects was to recuce the load time on start, because kdenlive does crash very often)
For finally video I created a 'summery' project and put the 4 rendered mp4 videos in it.

Now I checked the result and found that some modifications in the projects are necessary.
Removing or shorten some video scenes in some projects and removing some pictures in dia shows.
Now I have the problem that after loading a saved project kdenlive still shows the 'old' length of dia-shows and in the summary project still the old length of the video clips. It repeat dia-shows from beginning or hold a picture in a video clip to fill the remaining length of the clip.
This is maybe a feature in kdenlive but what can I do to see the real changed video clips and can rearrange it ?
OK, I can remove the video file in the project and load it again but then I also lost the audio settings in this video clip (loud/quiet) and this would be a lot of work to recreate it.

Thanks for a hint.
Werner

Which version of kdenlive, mlt, and ffmpeg are you working with?

I'm using the tools below from openSUSE Packman repository.
http://packman.links2linux.de

kdenlive: 0.9.2-5.2
mlt: 0.7.8+0.7.9_78_g14c5abc-3.1
libmlt++3: 0.8.2-3.1
libmlt5: 0.8.2-3.1
ffmpeg: 1.0.1.1

I'm asking since recently kdenlive stability seem to have improved -- so far I never saw crashes during project load. There have also been some important fixes in mlt. Do you have the option to try a recent build from the svn repository?

Hi,
there is no crash during project load but during working on the project. 90% during view of video in the clip monitor. And I'm using full hd material (1920x1080).

BTW: I installed openSuse 12.1 from scratch and during this time MLT was providet in version .0.7.8+0.7.9_78_g14c5abc-3.1 by packman. Actual I see no MLT package for 12.1. So currently I have no RPM repository for it.

But the crashes are not my problem here.
I asked for a solution how I can say kdenlive it should not fill up a clip when I shorten it outside of kdenlive.
Example:

======================== ======== =====
clip 1 ======== ====== ====
clip 2 clip 3 Dia show 5 6

When I change clip 1 outside of kdenlive and start kdenlive again then the project looks exact equal as before I changed clip 1.
Same when I remove some pictures from dia show.
But it should look:

==================== ========= ======
======== ==== ====

Much thanks

Oh, sorry the example looks not I want. I will use '_' for ' ':

========================________========_______ =====
________________________========________=======______===

After changes:
====================____________========_______ =====
________________________========________=====________===
______Clip_1_____________clip_2____clip_3__Dia_Show_clip_4

Do I understand correctly that you are changing the source clips outside kdenlive? I'm afraid that this isn't detected by kdenlive and I hardly believe that even if it would that there is a universal usecase and single correct handling.

You are right.
But sorry I'm not talking about "detecting of changed clips by kdenlive".

I'm talking about
kdenlive does not change/update the length of the graphic of clips in the timeline.

And my question was if this is a desired behavior of kdenlive how I can switch off it ?

Thanks
Werner

I was a bit confused when I saw your first post and I'm more confused :-)

In your last drawing above you said "After Changes".... and that's when you got the gaps. Can you explain exactly how you made those changes? Thanks.

Sorry. I had not the idea that my problem is so unintelligible.
I wrote at the beginning that I created 4 kdenlive projects and render it to 4 mp4 video files.
This 4 resulting video files I used it in a 5th kdenlive project and put it to the timeline.
This 5th project I render a 'overall' mp4 video file.
After watching the 'overall' mp4 video file (length: 1:5 h) I made some changes in the first 4 projects and render it again.
So the changes I made.
But please note kdenlive realize that the content of the files has been changed but it does not adjust the grapical representation of an changed video in the timeline.
When I remove a file in the project window then also the corresponding element in the timeline will be deleted but no adjustment will happen when the length of the file has been changed (200MB -> 150MB).

Today I tested my problem in the following way:

1. put two video clips (clip1.mp4 = 180MB and clip2.mp4 = 90MB ) into the timeline one after another
clip1 | clip2
2. save the project.
3. exit kdenlive
4. mv clip1.mp4 clipX.mp4 (swap the content of both clips)
5. mv clip2.mp4 clip1.mp4
6. mv clipX.mp4 clip2.mp4
7. Start kdenlive and read saved project
You will see the grapical representation of the both clips in the timeline have still the same length as before swap, but clip1.mp4 is now much shorter as before.
8. render the project to e.g. result.mp4
9. vlc result.mp4
You will see the content of the orginal clip2.mp4 at the beginning and on the end of it the last picture of it until the clip1.mp4 starts.

I hope it is now more clear.
Thanks
Werner

Maybe I understand why you ask me how I make the changes on the clips because normally all changes should be made in kdenlive.
But because the source video clips are about 150 files and 33 GB I creaded the 4 projects in kdenlive handle better the big number of files and to reduce the start time of the tool.
Additionally the grapical representation of dia shows are also not changed when pictures are deleted after the dia show is placed in the timeline.

Have a nice day
Werner

Now I understand what you're doing.

I am definitely not qualified in the workings of Kdenlive, but, in my opinion, it does not expect users to alter Project clips externally. I feel you may be introducing errors. Try adding the new clip with a slight name change and just copy/paste the effects over and remove the old one completely. I still wouldn't do it myself.

You don't really have to do all that rendering. Create a new Project and add your .Kdenlive Project files to the Project Tree as clips, then drag the four of them to the timeline and do your render.

There is the possibility this may not work with some versions of Kdenlive, so just drag a project file to the Project Tree and if it says "missing clip" then you're out of luck with this idea :-(

I would assume that the working model of kdenlive is different from what "wernerf" needs for his fifth project. Wernerf basically wants to just assemble the four rendered intermediate clips into a single, final clip.

Now, kdenlive's model isn't "assemble" but instead works with zones of clips that get placed in the timeline. It's a cut sheet. These zones are described by their absolute start and end time (or frame) within the clip the zone belongs to. There is such logical start and end time of a zone as "begin" and "end" of clip. In consequence, the cut sheet cannot adjust if a source clip changes, as the zones in it are always absolute.

I would assume to rather use ffmpeg or something to directly assemble the four parts into the final clip. Kdenlive doesn't seem to be the right tool, but that's just my impression, I may be completely wrong here.

@wernerf:

You are right, currently when opening a project, Kdenlive does not check if the clips have changed. You can trigger a manual check by right clicking in the clip in project tree and selecting "Reload Clip". It will then check the clip duration and thumbnails. However we might want to automatically check all clips when opening a project... Do you think it is worth checking for all clips on every project opening?

Auto check and shift would only work in a single track situation. If there are several tracks, and the time alignment between clips on them is important, you can't avoid gaps (or overlaps) when clip durations change.

I already used "Reload Clip" but this does not change the clip in the timeline.

From my point of view it would be helpful when on start of kdenlive or on "Reload Clip" the clips in the timeline are shorten or marked when the real clip is shorter as the clip in the timeline.
I know now that the actual operating is a fact in the tool and so I must adapt my way of working.

Thanks at all for reading and giving comments.
Werner